Curse

ashes · Apr 07, 2011, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Which would you prefer on a R/P spearchucker HM build?

Enraged Lunge deal huge dmg and cause deep wound, but in HM foes got alot of armor and deep will never reduce your health by more than 100 points. Heal as One might seem weak at first glance - but wouldnt 19 lifesteal be pretty useful vs high armor foes?

I cant rly agree with myself on this one, i need your opinion please

AndroBubbles · Apr 07, 2011, 07:10 PM // 19:10

I actually like HaO a lot, it's a great way to increase damage, as well as keep both you and your pet alive, not to mention when you have it in PvE it frees up your skill bar since it also brings your pet. For a damage boost I bring spear of fury to fuel expensive but powerful spear attacks.

miriforst · Apr 07, 2011, 07:22 PM // 19:22

On my dedicated build i use heal as one as the elite since the update. It is amazing and puts pressure of your monks a bit as an additional bonus while making both you and your pet quite tanky. The life steal removed the need to sacrifice dps for it and although it lost the deep wound i simply use brutal strike as main spike.

ashes · Apr 07, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Yea thats what i was thinking, just trying to convince myself...

Also, Never Rampage Alone will increase HaO's effectiveness alot.

Im also trying to squeeze Spear of Fury into the build, big dmg and great adr management - just need a condition to fuel

I was thinking someone like this;

AndroBubbles · Apr 07, 2011, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashes

Yea thats what i was thinking, just trying to convince myself...

Also, Never Rampage Alone will increase HaO's effectiveness alot.

Im also trying to squeeze Spear of Fury into the build, big dmg and great adr management - just need a condition to fuel

I was thinking someone like this;

Barbed spear or poisonous bite. Blazing spear also works nicely for things like spirits.

Sir Baddock · Apr 07, 2011, 07:59 PM // 19:59

I've been using HaO on my Warrior lately, it's fun to screw around with.

Khaal · Apr 07, 2011, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Funny to see all the HaO advocates. Don't get me wrong, HaO is great, but I was using HaO before the update and am using ELunge now, lol. Depending on the rest of your build, either will be fine. I have been doing the ZVQ with ELunge and having a ball with it but you should be able to HaO quite well too. Maybe I'll give HaO another go, just to change things up for a while.

Haggis of Doom · Apr 07, 2011, 10:02 PM // 22:02

A pet attacks roughly every 2.15 seconds. This is reduced to 1.61 seconds with 25% IAS, and 1.44 seconds with 33% IAS (keeping 3 significant figures).

Assuming 14 BM, Enraged Lunge adds a potential of 147 damage every 5 seconds, regardless of attack speed. HaO adds a potential of 44.2 dmg over 5 seconds with no IAS, 59.0 dmg over 5 seconds with 25% IAS, and 66.0 dmg over 5 seconds with 33% IAS.

Here are the other considerations:
- Enraged Lunge gets worse and worse if your team is bad. Applying Deep Wound on a fresh foe every 5 seconds is one thing, applying 7 Deep Wounds on the same foe because your team can't kill it is another. With the same logic, it will fall short against foes with thousands of health as well.
- EL requires better timing to get the most out of it.
- Kiting enemies strongly push the numbers in EL's favor.
- Deep Wound grants a 20% healing penalty, which is more of a concern in PvP so let's discard this point.
- If you have other sources of DW that happen fairly often, you probably shouldn't bring EL (but the whole comparison would be pretty pointless too).
- HaO saves you a skill slot.
- HaO gives some minor healing.
- HaO has a 1 second skill activation time.
- Higher ranks of BM favor HaO, lower ranks of BM favor EL.

All things considered, EL > HaO for regular HM unless you're specifically going after bosses which take some time to take down (Duncan the Black, Abaddon etc). Even on a pretty crappy team which kills an enemy every 10 seconds, EL would have offered 194 extra damage over this period, while HaO under 33% IAS would have given 132 in the same amount of time. In fact, both skills come even if your team kills an enemy about every 25 seconds. If you're killing that slowly, better start bringing poison + bleeding.

The extra skill slot is the only possible saving grace for HaO, though it is more of a bar comparison than a skill comparison if we get into that.

Kunder · Apr 08, 2011, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Enraged Lunge may as well say that any enemy under 50% health hit with it dies.

Keep in mind, pets have a +33% damage modifier. +50 turns into +67 damage. OTOH, life stealing from HaO isn't affected. Considering the slow pet attack rate, EL is better damage than HaO *even without the +100 from deep wound*.

The other benefits of HaO are bar compression and healing. The heal effect on cast is mostly useless, and the pet heal from life steal is useless too since its minor and pets rarely get targeting heavily anyway. Bar compression is of debateable advantage, but I think you are hard pressed to find 7 other good skills for a ranger to have in the first place.

To summarize, EL > HaO pretty much always.

Doug4130 · Apr 08, 2011, 04:01 AM // 04:01

EL hits like a truck and is a reliable source of DW, I don't see how HaO can compare, your pet gets some decent healing via NRA and protection with Oytugh's Cry or whatever it's called. Just try EL, look at your damage, it's an op skill

cataphract · Apr 08, 2011, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Enraged Lunge all the way. Used it in many of my vanquishes when I was going for gwamm on my ranger. I was so thrilled by the update because now - for the first time - my ranger was given the ability to inflict DW. It was great! And Sarwrax was happy too. <3

Amy Awien · Apr 08, 2011, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Depends on style. EL is not definitely better, you can only apply deep wound on a target once. When I use the pet to take the initial assault HaO helps to focus hostile attention on him rather then me or the heroes.

FoxBat · Apr 08, 2011, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Keep in mind, pets have a +33% damage modifier. +50 turns into +67 damage. OTOH, life stealing from HaO isn't affected. Considering the slow pet attack rate, EL is better damage than HaO *even without the +100 from deep wound*.

Known that this affects anything other than base damage? Buffing them with SoH etc. could get insane if true.

NerfHerder · Apr 08, 2011, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Currently, damage is greater than defense in GW. So EL is better. Even still, I dont see a problem with taking HaO if thats what you want to do. If you want to use HaO, consider taking Predator's Pounce. It doesnt have DW and does about 15 less damage than EL, which is still a pretty heavy hit. Its basicaly the non elite form of EL and HaO gives you that extra skill slot.

I also want to point out the when putting EL vs HaO, EL is clearly superior, if your only fighting the master of damage or Lord Jadoth. Otherwise, regular combat happens so fast the difference is negligable. Take what you feel most comfortable with.

Regardless of which route you take, I wouldnt worry too much about your spear damage. Concentrate your att points into Beast Mastery and Expertise, and go full on Beast Master. With Otyugh's Cry, Call of Protection, and NRA, your pet should almost never die and will be unblockable most of the time. I like to take Barbed Spear, Poisonous Bite, and Scavenger Strike. The -7 degen is equal to 14 DPS and Scavanger Strike gives you enough energy to spam attacks and NRA/Feral Aggression with ease.

ashes · Apr 08, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Thanks for the inputs, its good to see other ppls opinions..

How about switching the spear out for bow attacks? is that even viable?

Maybe some like; Sloth Hunter's Shot and Triple Shot? This would open up for another 2nd, SY! 'spaming' maybe?

Kunder · Apr 08, 2011, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Known that this affects anything other than base damage? Buffing them with SoH etc. could get insane if true.

It affects all damage the pet causes, including SoH/SW/GDW. Not barbs or MoP I believe (though I haven't tested), since that damage is assigned to the necromancer who cast the spell and BUH doesn't increase that damage unless the necromancer has the +% damage on him. Its nice, but its really only to counterbalance poor pet attack rates and it still doesn't do that. A sword with +20 from SoH gets +15 DPS, a pet with +27 from SoH gets +13 DPS.

Quote:

Maybe some like; Sloth Hunter's Shot and Triple Shot? This would open up for another 2nd, SY! 'spaming' maybe?

I can always recommend SY on anything because SY is better than any other skill in guild wars. Since you don't have barrage to rack up adrenaline fast you really want to use an Orders character in the group, but otherwise its solid.

GWfan#1 · Apr 09, 2011, 04:59 AM // 04:59

HaO is much more useful imo.

ashes · Apr 09, 2011, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Would switching from spear to bow decrease your dps alot?

EDIT: Just tested EL vs HaO (spear version) on the master of dmg, and EL is about 5dps higher that HaO - but HaO frees up a slot on your bar - so if that slot can provide over 5dps HaO should be to prefer.

Wenspire · Apr 09, 2011, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Spear and bow have almost the same base damage and same attack speed (if using short bow/flat bow). With a spear you get added defense and life via shield as a benefit.

One thing you may consider doing is adding a few points into command and grab GftE. Three to four points into it and you give everyone (including pet) a +49% bonus chance to land a critical hit (which is something like: [maximum damage]*1.414 according to wiki). The skill is easily powered; even-more-so with a bow and volley skill.

FoxBat · Apr 09, 2011, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Spear and bow have almost the same base damage and same attack speed (if using short bow/flat bow).

The difference between 1.5 and 2s is enormous. You'll basically hit 33% more often with a spear.